Democracy Prevails
--story--
"POLICHARKI, Afghanistan — An Afghan court has dismissed the case against a man on trial for allegedly converting from Islam to Christianity for lack of evidence, an official said."
If you know and talk to Liberals on a daily basis, you'll know that when the issue of Afghanistan is discussed, they simply dismiss the existence of a real Democracy by citing the following story. Former Muslim of Afghanistan, Abdul Rahman, recently converted to Christianity, and because of it, he was put on trial for his "crime" and it was looking like we would get the death penalty. People on the left would tell you that this shows how Democracy doesn't and can't exist in Afghanistan, and our efforts were a failure. Well, to be honest, they made a very good point. One even I couldn't debate, because it was that simple. Someone was going to be killed for taking advantage of what a Democracy offers. So I just would think, give it time, things will turn out okay, I know it. In the end the people of Afghanistan will choose Democracy over Sharia law.
Well, it turns out I was right. Just recently, the courts have dismissed the case and the trial is over. There will be no execution for the now Christian, Abdul Rahman. As of right now he is still in prison, but again, in time, Democracy will will grow stronger in the country of Afghanistan. I know it will.
Remember this when people tell you the war on terror can't be won, and Democracy will never work. They're wrong, it is working. It may be a slow process, and there will be rough times, but in the end the people will choose freedom, because it really is the best option. Also remember this when people tell you the people of the Middle East don't support what we're doing. If people support us enough to convert to Christianity, we must be doing something right. Of course this will all be denied one way or another. I'm sure someone will capitalize on the fact that the case was dismissed due to "lack of evidence". Don't buy into it. I can tell you that without a doubt in my mind the court was just trying to look big and tough, because there really was plenty of evidence to prove he converted to Christianity. He begged his prison guards for a Bible. It's not like he's hiding anything, he's a proud Christian who wants to give Democracy a chance. And soon others will follow, maybe not converting, but certainly practicing their new freedoms. And over time Afghanistan will open up more and more to these freedoms, no matter what the pessimists tell you.
"POLICHARKI, Afghanistan — An Afghan court has dismissed the case against a man on trial for allegedly converting from Islam to Christianity for lack of evidence, an official said."
If you know and talk to Liberals on a daily basis, you'll know that when the issue of Afghanistan is discussed, they simply dismiss the existence of a real Democracy by citing the following story. Former Muslim of Afghanistan, Abdul Rahman, recently converted to Christianity, and because of it, he was put on trial for his "crime" and it was looking like we would get the death penalty. People on the left would tell you that this shows how Democracy doesn't and can't exist in Afghanistan, and our efforts were a failure. Well, to be honest, they made a very good point. One even I couldn't debate, because it was that simple. Someone was going to be killed for taking advantage of what a Democracy offers. So I just would think, give it time, things will turn out okay, I know it. In the end the people of Afghanistan will choose Democracy over Sharia law.
Well, it turns out I was right. Just recently, the courts have dismissed the case and the trial is over. There will be no execution for the now Christian, Abdul Rahman. As of right now he is still in prison, but again, in time, Democracy will will grow stronger in the country of Afghanistan. I know it will.
Remember this when people tell you the war on terror can't be won, and Democracy will never work. They're wrong, it is working. It may be a slow process, and there will be rough times, but in the end the people will choose freedom, because it really is the best option. Also remember this when people tell you the people of the Middle East don't support what we're doing. If people support us enough to convert to Christianity, we must be doing something right. Of course this will all be denied one way or another. I'm sure someone will capitalize on the fact that the case was dismissed due to "lack of evidence". Don't buy into it. I can tell you that without a doubt in my mind the court was just trying to look big and tough, because there really was plenty of evidence to prove he converted to Christianity. He begged his prison guards for a Bible. It's not like he's hiding anything, he's a proud Christian who wants to give Democracy a chance. And soon others will follow, maybe not converting, but certainly practicing their new freedoms. And over time Afghanistan will open up more and more to these freedoms, no matter what the pessimists tell you.
posted by Cody O'Connor @ 8:41 AM
24 Comments:
At 26/3/06 9:17 AM,
Rebekah said…
That's great. This can't happen in a country that's supposed to be free. Although I have a hunch this isn't going to be the first time, I think they were definitely looking for a way out of this one.
At 26/3/06 9:24 AM,
Anonymous said…
Excellent! I was following that story as well. I was hoping that the Afghanis would do the right thing and not slip back to their old ways. Perhaps we can actually create freedom over there eventually. We just have to watch them for a while.
At 29/3/06 3:11 PM,
The Prophet Dervish Z Sanders said…
Cody Said... So I just would think, give it time, things will turn out okay, I know it. ...Democracy will will grow stronger in the country of Afghanistan. I know it will.
How do you "know" this? Wishful thinking isn't "knowing".
Cody Said... I can tell you that without a doubt in my mind...
Really? No doubt? To me that sounds like someone who is deluded. Contrary to what some have claimed, bush was not divinely appointed.
Cody Said... If you know and talk to Liberals on a daily basis, you'll know that when the issue of Afghanistan is discussed, they simply dismiss the existence of a real Democracy by citing the following story.
Are you talking from personal experience? It's hard to tell. I haven't heard any liberals say Democracy couldn't possibly work.
I think it could if bush hadn't pratically abandoned the work that still needs to be done there. Former Unocal consultant (and bush puppet/crony) Hamid Karzai is basically just the mayor of Kabul, while warlords control the rest of the country. Aren't you aware that opium production in "free" Afghanistan is booming? (total production is almost double the country's peak production levels under the Taliban.)
Cody Said... In the end the people of Afghanistan will choose Democracy over Sharia law.
Your belief in this nonsense shows just how ignorant you are to reality.
Cody Said... Well, it turns out I was right. Just recently, the courts have dismissed the case and the trial is over. There will be no execution for the now Christian, Abdul Rahman.
I saw a news report on this, and every ordinary citizen that was interviewed said he should be put to death. How does that mean you were right?
Cody Said... As of right now he is still in prison, but again...
Last I heard the pope asked that his life be spared -- and he's on his way to Italy now. I was afraid that bush was going to get him killed. Because the US asking that this man's life be spared angered the Afgan people, who vowed that they would not bend to the demands of the US.
Cody Said... If people support us enough to convert to Christianity, we must be doing something right. Of course this will all be denied one way or another.
What the hell are you talking about? This is ONE guy who's family turned him in! And, BTW, his conversion took place 16 years ago (if I remember correctly), so it had NOTHING to do with the US toppling the Taliban.
At 29/3/06 8:30 PM,
The Prophet Dervish Z Sanders said…
DarkSaturos said... Not this crap again. Can't you see no one wants to listen to your pessimism and bullshit dervish?
What can I say? I guess you refuted everything I said. And -- without any proof what-so-ever. How do you do it?
At 29/3/06 8:47 PM,
Anonymous said…
What can I say? I guess you refuted everything I said. And -- without any proof what-so-ever.
How do you disprove an opinon pray?
At 29/3/06 9:08 PM,
The Prophet Dervish Z Sanders said…
DarkSaturos said... How do you disprove an opinon pray?
I think the more important question is how can anyone argue with a person who doesn't even know the meaning of the words they use? (or how to spell them)
Dictionary definition, Opinion: A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or PROOF.
The purpose of the links I provide? PROOF. See, I'm the one backing up what I say with links, you're the one posting biased OPINIONS.
At 29/3/06 9:25 PM,
The Prophet Dervish Z Sanders said…
Calling someone's conclusion an opinion is not the end of the debate!
My conclusion that things are not going that well in Afghanistan could be called an opinion, but I used several facts to reach that conclusion. You are entitled to call my opinion wrong, but if you're going to debate me you have to explain either:
Why my facts are wrong, or
Why my conclusion (based on those facts) is wrong.
Cody said that he took debate class... obvious you have not. If you did you most certainly should have received an "F".
I can imagine the debate:
Opponent: describes his position in detail, citing the reasons why he believes he is right.
Robby: That's all Opinion. *gives himself a victory cheer, and does a victory lap around the classroom*
How many grades have you been held back?
At 29/3/06 9:43 PM,
Anonymous said…
you're the one posting biased OPINIONS.
Biased? You put a link from Democrats.com! You don't think that's biased? What exactly is your defenition of biased?
How many grades have you been held back?
Personal attacks again. How pathetic.
At 29/3/06 9:53 PM,
Anonymous said…
Here's the deal dervish, and it's only offered once, so don't blow it. You present your case with links, unbiased news links. I'll present mine with my own. No childish put downs, no pathetic whining and no personal insults. Take it or leave it.
At 29/3/06 10:59 PM,
The Prophet Dervish Z Sanders said…
I doubt that's possible. No matter where my information comes from you'll call it biased. You've proven that to be the case time and time again.
You called my entire post (the one which was on topic) a "personal opinion" without bothering to say WHY you thought a single thing I said was wrong. You don't think that would make someone angry?
Which was why the next thing I posted was a personal attack. How was I supposed to reply? Most of what you post is OPINION, but I'm not arrogant enough to think I can dismiss someone's ENTIRE post with one sentence!
How can you say "no personal insults", when your entire sentence up to that point is a personal insult? Give me a break.
If you're serious why don't you PROVE it by composing an actual response to my post. I'll give YOU one chance to take me up on my offer. YOU can take it or leave it.
At 30/3/06 3:09 PM,
Anonymous said…
Well you blew it. More proof liberals can't debate reasonably.
At 30/3/06 4:02 PM,
Cody O'Connor said…
And more proof that he's not witty enough to form his own style of debating. Instead he must simply copy what we say like a little 8 year old, wow, that's reeeeaaal respectable.
At 30/3/06 4:07 PM,
Cody O'Connor said…
I'm just waiting for him to copy me by putting multiple vowels in a word and italicizing it. It's also possible he'll copy the line "and more proof". But could you expect anything better from such a grade A jacka$$? Nope.
At 30/3/06 10:42 PM,
The Prophet Dervish Z Sanders said…
DarkSaturos said... Well you blew it. More proof liberals can't debate reasonably.
YOU blew it. All I asked for was an actual reply to my post. You couldn't do it.
At 31/3/06 2:36 PM,
Anonymous said…
dervish do you know what an ultimatum is? (No running to dictionary.com either.) If you refuse the ultimatum you deal with the consequences. Stop trying to pin all the blame on me. You had a choice. It's not my fault you can't close your big mouth. And what makes you think I'll take up YOUR offer when you won't mine?
At 31/3/06 3:12 PM,
The Prophet Dervish Z Sanders said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
At 31/3/06 3:39 PM,
The Prophet Dervish Z Sanders said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
At 31/3/06 3:41 PM,
The Prophet Dervish Z Sanders said…
You complain about personal insults? Of course I know what an ultimatum is -- and I think you know damn well that people (in general) don't like them.
And what makes you think I'll take up YOUR offer when you won't mine?
I didn't say I wouldn't. I said I thought your offer was insincere. I asked you to prove me wrong by actually responding to my post. You didn't because your deal wasn't sincere, it was BULLSHIT.
You are the one who can't debate reasonably. Proclaiming my post to be "pessimism", "crap", "bullshit", and "opinion" is NOT an argument against anything I said. Obviously you're not smart enough to know what real debate is.
And I don't give a shit about your "consequences". You can stuff your consequences where the sun doesn't shine.
At 31/3/06 5:43 PM,
Anonymous said…
You complain about personal insults? Of course I know what an ultimatum is
No insult, just wondering.
I didn't say I wouldn't.
Then do it damnit. And don't rant at me either because I don't back down to that. Take the offer or leave it. If you really didn't say you wouldn't then do it and quit bickering.
At 1/4/06 5:32 PM,
Cody O'Connor said…
"Proclaiming my post to be "pessimism", "crap", "bullshit", and "opinion" is NOT an argument against anything I said."
Maybe not but it is true.
At 1/4/06 5:54 PM,
Cody O'Connor said…
To get back on topic here...
I Said...
"So I just would think, give it time, things will turn out okay, I know it. ...Democracy will will grow stronger in the country of Afghanistan. I know it will."
w-dervish said...
"How do you "know" this? Wishful thinking isn't "knowing"."
Because it's happening right in front of my eyes! The tral ended, and he got released from prison, that is a step toward Democracy no matter what you say. No, they aren't at total Democracy yet, I know that, but it is a step. But you don't want anything good to happen. You want "Bush's wars" to fail so the Dems can take charge in '08. What you are doing isn't pessimistic, it's seditious.
Cody Said...
"I can tell you that without a doubt in my mind..."
"Really? No doubt? To me that sounds like someone who is deluded. Contrary to what some have claimed, bush was not divinely appointed."
Think what you want, but every day Democracy grows bigger in Afghanistan. Call me deluded, I could care less, it only makes you more wrong.
Cody Said...
"If you know and talk to Liberals on a daily basis, you'll know that when the issue of Afghanistan is discussed, they simply dismiss the existence of a real Democracy by citing the following story."
"Are you talking from personal experience? It's hard to tell. I haven't heard any liberals say Democracy couldn't possibly work."
Yes, I actually do have friends who are Liberal.
"I think it could if bush hadn't pratically abandoned the work that still needs to be done there."
Tell me how he's abandonned the war yet we still have troops there. I can't just let you make that kind of statement and get away with it.
"Former Unocal consultant (and bush puppet/crony) Hamid Karzai is basically just the mayor of Kabul, while warlords control the rest of the country. Aren't you aware that opium production in "free" Afghanistan is booming? (total production is almost double the country's peak production levels under the Taliban.)"
So what? There's drugs in every country. Would you say we aren't yet "free" because we still have a drug problem?
Cody Said...
"In the end the people of Afghanistan will choose Democracy over Sharia law."
"Your belief in this nonsense shows just how ignorant you are to reality."
Really? So you, dervish, the one who apparantly is not ignorant to reality, think the majority of people choose Dictatorship of Democracy? That's bullcrap. The only people who enjoy Dictatorships are the dictators. Just looke at Cuba. Every day civilians try to leave the horrible Communist regime.
Cody Said...
"Well, it turns out I was right. Just recently, the courts have dismissed the case and the trial is over. There will be no execution for the now Christian, Abdul Rahman."
"I saw a news report on this, and every ordinary citizen that was interviewed said he should be put to death. How does that mean you were right?"
How does that mean the news report was completely right? I never said there would be no backlash whatsoever to this guys conversion, but gradually, I think the people will finally just accept it.
Cody Said...
"As of right now he is still in prison, but again..."
"Last I heard the pope asked that his life be spared -- and he's on his way to Italy now. I was afraid that bush was going to get him killed. Because the US asking that this man's life be spared angered the Afgan people, who vowed that they would not bend to the demands of the US."
Yes, it is true he's going to Italy. Again, I never said this meant Afghanistan was instantly perfect. All I'm saying is that it is making a gradual, but undenyable shift toward Democracy.
Cody Said...
"If people support us enough to convert to Christianity, we must be doing something right. Of course this will all be denied one way or another."
"What the hell are you talking about? This is ONE guy who's family turned him in! And, BTW, his conversion took place 16 years ago (if I remember correctly), so it had NOTHING to do with the US toppling the Taliban."
Even if it was 16 years ago, it looks like it wasn't until the defeat of the Taliban until he felt safe enough to let it out. But like you, I'm not entirely sure when or how he ended up in that situation.
At 5/4/06 6:35 AM,
Cody O'Connor said…
What, no reply? It looks like big bad dervish was only talk.
At 8/4/06 2:21 PM,
The Prophet Dervish Z Sanders said…
Cody said... What, no reply? It looks like big bad dervish was only talk.
No, I just needed a break from your blog. However, I am still growing EXTREMELY sick of right-wing lies. Hopefully you will be voted out of power soon...
All the things you "just know" are possible in Iraq (with the exception of them tossing away religious law); I think those things are possible too. The sad truth is the Afghani government is too weak and lacks the financial resources to accomplish the task. They need help. But they aren't getting it because bush diverted most of our resources to the illegal and unnecessary war in Iraq.
Cody said... Because it's happening right in front of my eyes! The trial ended, and he got released from prison, that is a step toward Democracy no matter what you say. No, they aren't at total Democracy yet, I know that, but it is a step.
I did some reading on this... it appears that this is just ONE case that got some international attention. Other converts were simply killed immediately.
Cody said... But you don't want anything good to happen. You want "Bush's wars" to fail so the Dems can take charge in '08. What you are doing isn't pessimistic, it's seditious.
If we fail it will result in MORE deaths. I do NOT want more people to die simply so that bush is proven wrong! The fact is bush is FAILING and his failure is responsible for many more deaths. Unlike you I don't think I can "wish" things better.
cody said... Think what you want, but every day Democracy grows bigger in Afghanistan. Call me deluded, I could care less, it only makes you more wrong.
My postition doesn't have anything to do with "thinking what I want". I do NOT want things to go badly so bush's policies can be proven wrong. They ARE wrong, and they WILL fail. It is not my desire, it is a simple fact.
Cody Said... Yes, I actually do have friends who are Liberal.
And they say Democracy can't possibly work?
Cody Said... Tell me how he's abandoned the war yet we still have troops there. I can't just let you make that kind of statement and get away with it.
Bush has Abandoned Afghanistan: In its obsession with Iraq, the Bush administration dropped the ball disgracefully in Afghanistan just as the effort to rebuild that violence-wracked nation began in earnest after the ouster of the Taliban regime more than two years ago. Now that fractious nation, once the breeding ground of the al-Qaida terror network, is in danger of reverting to the entropy of tribal warfare and its ruinous economic addiction to the opium poppy trade.
Worse yet, the vanquished Taliban is resurging, mounting ever more daring raids against the sparse and inexperienced Afghan security forces backed by a pathetically small contingent of NATO peacekeepers. What was once a signal victory in the war on terror is teetering on the edge of turning into a lamentable, avoidable failure.
Facing increasingly precarious elections, the fledgling government of President Hamid Karzai in Kabul needs all the help it can get. It's not getting enough of it, either to ensure the minimum security needed to hold a national vote or to rebuild its decrepit infrastructure. Unless the Bush administration makes a stronger commitment to improving security and, above all, persuades its reluctant NATO allies at least to double, if not triple, their almost ludicrous contingent of 6,500 peacekeepers - in a nation of 26 million people - the Kabul government will fall and Afghanistan could once again become a mecca for radical Islamists. (502 Reasons to Dump Bush. )
Cody Said... So what? There's drugs in every country. Would you say we aren't yet "free" because we still have a drug problem?
The US has a drug use problem. Afghanistan has a drug production problem. Your comparrison isn't valid.
cody Said... In the end the people of Afghanistan will choose Democracy over Sharia law. Really? So you, dervish, the one who apparantly is not ignorant to reality, think the majority of people choose Dictatorship of Democracy? That's bullcrap. The only people who enjoy Dictatorships are the dictators. Just looke at Cuba. Every day civilians try to leave the horrible Communist regime.
No. I didn't say that. I said they have not discarded Religious Law. And they won't be doing so anytime soon -- Religious law has been written into the new Afghani Constitution!
Article Three Ch. 1, Art. 3 states: In Afghanistan, no law can be contrary to the beliefs and provisions of the sacred religion of Islam.
cody Said... How does that mean the news report was completely right? I never said there would be no backlash whatsoever to this guys conversion, but gradually, I think the people will finally just accept it.
What do you base this assumption on?? It couldn't be because religious law isn't a part of their constitution.
Cody Said... Even if it was 16 years ago, it looks like it wasn't until the defeat of the Taliban until he felt safe enough to let it out. But like you, I'm not entirely sure when or how he ended up in that situation.
How he ended up in that situation: Mr Rahman converted to Christianity over 14 years ago, but his situation was bought to the attention of the authorities after he tried to gain custody of his daughters who had been living with their grandparents. His parents then denounced him as a convert and on arrest he was found to be carrying a Bible. (Afghan faces death penalty for Christian faith. Times Online. 3/20/2006.)
The reason his conversion was revealed was because his parents turned him in! He did NOT "let it out" because he "felt safe".
The article I quoted above says 14 years... the 16 year number I got from this article:
Rahman reportedly converted 16 years ago while he was a medical aid worker for an international nongovernmental organization (NGO). (Officials: Afghan convert to be freed CNN.com. 3/26/2006)
Cody Said... In the end the people of Afghanistan will choose Democracy over Sharia law.
Really? Even when that law is written into the Afgan constitution (The Afgan constitution says, "no law can be contrary to the sacred religion of Islam")? Even when most ordinary Afghans wanted him killed? Even when the judge wanted him killed? Even when he avoided the death penalty because family members said he had mental problems? Even when, after he was released, he had to flee the country?
Biased article quote: "The Attorney General is emphasising he should be hung. It is a crime to convert to Christianity from Islam. He is teasing and insulating his family by converting", Judge Alhaj Ansarullah Mawlawy Zada, who will be trying his case, told The Times.
"He was a Muslim for 25 years more than he has been a Christian. We will request him to become a Muslim again. In your country two women can marry I think that is very strange. In this country we have the perfect constitution, it is Islamic law and it is illegal to be a Christian and it should be punished", said the judge. (Afghan faces death penalty for Christian faith. Times Online. 3/20/2006.)
At 10/4/06 7:49 AM,
Cody O'Connor said…
"bush diverted most of our resources to the illegal and unnecessary war in Iraq."
We aren't short of troops or supplies in Afghanistan, it only seems like that because the media is focused only on Iraq.
"I did some reading on this... it appears that this is just ONE case that got some international attention. Other converts were simply killed immediately."
So you have a link then?
"I do NOT want more people to die simply so that bush is proven wrong! The fact is bush is FAILING"
Fact? please. You can give editorials, DNC talking points and whatever else, but you will never have facts. Go on, give me some actual facts here, can you?
"The US has a drug use problem. Afghanistan has a drug production problem. Your comparrison isn't valid."
Okay, Mexico has a drug production problem, they're a free country, right?
"No. I didn't say that. I said they have not discarded Religious Law. And they won't be doing so anytime soon -- Religious law has been written into the new Afghani Constitution!"
Yes, and I think it's wrong. Again, I never said things would be perfect, I only said there is progress.
"How he ended up in that situation: Mr Rahman converted to Christianity over 14 years ago, but his situation was bought to the attention of the authorities"
alright, I'll give you that. But the trial was stopped wasn't it? He was let out of prison wasn't he? Doesn't that mean something for progression toward Democracy in Afghanistan?
Okay, I acknowledge that Sharia law will still be there no matter what, but I will say that the people of Afghanistan will still choose Democracy over a dictatorship.
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